C64/Amiga classics (vs 3D games)

[DeAdLy_cOoKiE]

Vote statistics:

C64 games
Amiga games

Newbies, retro-gamers and game designers. Out of all games that I've played on the C64 and Amiga, all the knowledge that I've recollected throughout the years, these games are my personal recommendations and definitely worth checking out and to learn from. Needless to say, I've owned, played (and completed) nearly all of these games, and I've voted as objectively as I could. Since most of these games are brainchilds of true visionairs of the 2D era, I'm hoping todays 3D game designers see the originality, gameplay and not so common game elements in these games that are somehow lacking in todays 'commercial' games.

Todays 3D games are generally too linear, action oriented and level restricted, while most of the older classics offer total freedom, and are truly immersive and atmospheric. I often wonder if it is even possible to create a generalized 3D engine that could theoretically render infinitely large playareas (portal technology), loading on the fly as you play if you will - seamless, since I'm still bugged with the loading-pauses.

The next generation of consoles and more important PC hardware look very promising, and games such as Doom III (near perfect graphics/shading), Halo (solid vehicle/combat action), Farcry (large scale rendering/realistic trees/vehicles) and especially Halflife 2 (realism - physics engine/large scale rendering/facial expressions) are great examples of what games should be like, and what game companies should strive for; freedom, interactivity, physics and immersiveness. Future game features could be Artificial Lifeforms (A.L.), realistic water and wind. In other words: Exile.

Thank you very much.
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[Kusarigama]

I want to add some words.
I simply hate reading endless manuals before playing, and memorizing thousands of controls deeply annoys me. I ususally like to load a game, try to understabd how it works, and then (only then) I read the manual to discover some extra features.
I believe that a game must be simple and intuitive. This is the key for the fun (according to me, of course). So by this point of view, old school games are the winners by far.
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[Predseda]

[LeeT]

I agree with you two, which explains why I am not a fan of strategy games in general - I like to pick up a game and play it without reading instructions.
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[Predseda]

But you can in most of strategies. I like this genre, altough is a little bit more complicated than arcades. But it depends on temper - sometimes I spend a lot of time in front of my monitor, playing a huge strategy game (modern one, on PC) or any 3D action like Project: Eden, sometimes I want something, where I don´t need to think and I play for example Bubble Bobble, Galaga or Master blaster - cute and fast games with a small brain capacity requirements.
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[Dastardly]

[Fiery Phoenix]

Again, agree about the manuals - only read them when I want to know something. You can't beat the feeling of picking up a game and playing it straight away.

ALl these games onthe PC now, keyboard controls with mouse, etc, etc. You need to memorise the bloody manual before you play - reading it hurts your head and you want to go to bed before you play the thing. Some of thes manuals seriously stress you out, you think how the blood hell am I going to remember all this?

Give me a joystick with a fire button any day
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1. Wings
2. Rocket Ranger
3. Goal
4. Premier Manager
5. Gravity Force

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[Predseda]

In the other way, I have read a manual for Bubble Bobble (because I have an original) and, against all expectations, it is very valuable!
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[The Dark Prince]

You know, this is a hard one. I too get really sick of games that are just too hard to get into, but on the other hand, the feeling of mastering a truly complex and difficult game is something quite different to getting the precision on an easy game. Having said that, even the most complicated of games has the possibility of being intuitive if well thought out.
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[Underfly]

Many of our favourites Genres have gone from 2D to 3D, and 3D can be quite annoying if you don't care for it.

Im finding today's game, a lot more expensive than yesterday, not just the price of the game, but how often are we spending hundreds of dollars upgrading our machine, just to play them. Once or Twice a year?

I'll spend over $400 over the years just to play SimCity 4, first the game, then an upgrade (more RAM, and video card), then the expansion pack, Rush Hour (can't believe an expansion is almost the same price of the game!)

Now got 512MB 2.0ghz, and yet theres still plenty of room for improvement, but im not gonna bother anymore, the game is already 3 years old, and im totally bored of it now.

Other that that, bugs in games are very common today, I believe beta-testing is now thrown at the customers or consumers, than we had play-testers 15 years ago.

But why have play-testers, when the companies presumes everyone has internet access and simply download patches.

[The Dark Prince]

Err, after seeing this topic come up again, I must say something.

In the time of amiga and c64, there were some shocking games made. Generic film conversions became platformers, there were 4 million clones of any game that became good.

Today there are some truly awful games out there, there are also some truly amazing ones. Unfortunately, retrospect is fantastic at remembering the good bits and forgetting the bad. For my part, the good games of now are different from the good games of the past, neither better, nor worse, simply different.

As for immersion..well, if you were caught up in the game, then you were immersed, it's a matter of what you feel, and depends strongly upon the person and the game. I found silent hill to be truly immersive, but many didn't. By the same respect, I find the final fantasy series to be complete trash, but some get obsessed, everyone is different.

Finally, manuals? You don't remember the manual wars, which Microprose started? manuals as thick as encyclopedias with 'novellas' written bu an uncaring author?
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If you spell Kim Lemon backwards you get "Nomel Mik", it doesn't really mean anything but I just thought you should be aware of it

[Metalrules]

I enjoy some of the modern games. Neverwinter Nights is my all time favorite game of all time. Some other modern games which i enjoy are Mafia and the Grand Theft Auto games but i always go back to C64 and Amiga games because the were fresh and had new ideas that todays games do not have. Most of the games that are made these days are 3D games like Doom3 and Half Life 2, that are good for a quick blast but they just dont grip me like a lot of the old games. I have more fun playing a game that was 100 kb than playing a game that was over 3gb on a couple of cs's. I wonder what other people think.
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[Underfly]

I wouldn't associate Doom3 or Half Life 2 as a quick blasters at all, for those type of games, they are really good if your in the mood and have the time.

I gotta get comfortable and prepare myself like I'm about to watch a movie to enjoy those two games, (Coke Cola helps a lot) and prepare to put a few hours in, without being disturbed, so I can fully immerse myself into the game.

I'm thinking of purchasing a sub-woofer the get the most out of the sound.

[Chaotica]

This is an interesting thread.

I think the immersion thing is subjective. I will say, however, that I find more modern games immersive then I did with older games. Modern immersive games are Half-Life, Doom 3, Planescape: Torment, System Shock II, Thief II, Manhunt, Painkiller, Balder's Gate - games that really draw you in. I rarely felt that with older games. With older games, I was more addicted rather then immersed. Not that that was a bad thing. But I did not feel sucked into the screen, like I did when I was playing Thief II, and relishing knocking out guards, looting mansions, and pissing my pants when a ghost appeared in the library (true story). When I was playing an older game, I always simply felt like I was playing a game, one that I enjoyed. And that was it.

I also disagree that today's games are too restrictive - I mean, look at Grand Theft Auto III - go anywhere, do whatever you like, total immersion. I feel older games were more restricted, with level design, options, and all that. Only Hunter and some Flight sims offer true "go anywhere" gameplay, IMO. But I haven't played every Amiga/retro game out there.

As for controls, I never had an issue with them. Going from joystick, to keyboard, and then to keyboard + mouse took some getting used to, but I picked it up very quickly. And the keyboard mouse combo provides better control in some games, like FPS.

As for manuals...I'm a bookworm, and I love reading through chunky manuals. Can't help it. I think it helps with immersion - a point discussed above, lol.

I'm not bagging old games - no way. I love them. But I'm just pointing out a few things I feel.
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[khisanth]

For me modern day games are very immersive. Ever since playing Doom with the lights out and headphones on and jumping out of my skin when an imp sprang out at me from around a corner, games have really sucked me into their worlds.

Being able to play games online is probably my favourite aspect of modern games. Multiplayer really brings a game to life and makes you love it even more.

Old retro games were great in a challenging way. You spent more time on them even if they were rubbish as you generally couldnt afford to buy many games with your measly pocket money. you kept at them and got a lot more enjoyment from them.