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ricky500
Amiga Enthusiast
Joined: 22 May 2005
Age: 27
Posts: 639
Location: Export, PA - USA
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 Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 2:45 pm Post subject: Defender of the Crown - Patching / improving |
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Here's a crazy idea that I want to put out.
As we all know the Amiga version of Defender of the Crown is missing a lot of features / gameplay elements that were added in ports to other machines most notably the Commodore 64. For instance sword fighting on the Amiga version is just mad clicking while other versions have a method to it. Also another example is in the castle siege, in the Amiga version you can only throw rocks while in other versions you can throw Greek fire and Disease.
Anyways, I was thinking, is there enough interest in the Amiga scene for someone or some people to edit / hack the Amiga version of DOTC to add the missing features that are in other versions of the game? I know that this would be a major undertaking. But I was wondering if there is any interest out there in the Amiga scene for such a project? To me, DOTC, is a monumental part of the Amiga's history, and since this is the 25th anniversary of the Amiga, to me it would be fitting for such a project to be done - a Defender of the Crown Re-Loaded as it where.
Of course it might be easier to take all the pictures, music, etc, and start with fresh code, and re-code the whole game maybe adding AGA support and new features as well.
Well, am I just crazy, or is this a possible project that could actually be done? 
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hurminator
Groupie in Training
Joined: 28 Jun 2008
Age: 41
Posts: 45
Location: Columbus, Ohio
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| Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Sounds like a good idea. I wonder if enough people are interested or if we need to start a bounty to make it work? |
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Kong Daddy
Amiga Junkie
Joined: 08 Sep 2008
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| Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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Well there is of course DotC 2 which is compatible with CDTV and CD32 which has the missing elements.
There was a CD32 specific version of DotC too, not sure if they added the extra code as per the PC-CDROM version to support the improved gameplay.
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ricky500
Amiga Enthusiast
Joined: 22 May 2005
Age: 27
Posts: 639
Location: Export, PA - USA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Kong Daddy wrote: | Well there is of course DotC 2 which is compatible with CDTV and CD32 which has the missing elements.
There was a CD32 specific version of DotC too, not sure if they added the extra code as per the PC-CDROM version to support the improved gameplay.
I really miss Cinemaware |
DOTC 2 is too easy to beat in my opinion - way easier than the original. You start out with enough money to build a big bad army from the get go and then you can just go trounce everybody, and then just beat them down when they pop back up on the map. Plus it takes about 1 1/2 to 2 hours to play though a whole game and there is no save feature. Besides there really needs to be an improved version that will run on normal Amigas not just the CDTV / CD32. (There is a WHDLoad install for DOTC 2 but then you don't get the CD audio)
About the CD32 specific version of DOTC - it was for the CDTV though it runs on the CD32 as well. It is pretty much a "shovel port" of the original floppy disk version to CD with a badly done CD sound track. The only real improvement game wise is that in the raiding sequence - strength bars are shown at the bottom of the screen like in the C64 version.
Defender of the Crown CDTV -
http://hol.abime.net/4379
By the PC-CDROM version do you mean the Digitally Re-Mastered Edition for Windows released around 2002 or was there actually a PC-CDROM version by Cinemaware back in the 90's?
| Quote: | | Sounds like a good idea. I wonder if enough people are interested or if we need to start a bounty to make it work? |
Anybody out there interested in doing this project or helping raise a bounty to make it happen?
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Kong Daddy
Amiga Junkie
Joined: 08 Sep 2008
Posts: 441
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| Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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ACE magazine gave away a free cover mounted CD in the late 80s with a demo of the PC-CDROM version. I don't know if it was released but it was worked on. I heard Cinemaware put all their eggs in the PC-Engine/Turbo Grafx CD basket with It came from the Desert...but as this was much later than DotC in chronology I see no reason why the original PC CD version wouldn't have been finished too but not 100% sure sorry.
I've got the remastered edition of the PC game, it doesn't really like Win XP much though which is a shame. Still it's a fantastic place to start with replacing some of the graphics. The princesses are sublime in 256 colours |
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ricky500
Amiga Enthusiast
Joined: 22 May 2005
Age: 27
Posts: 639
Location: Export, PA - USA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Kong Daddy wrote: |
I've got the remastered edition of the PC game, it doesn't really like Win XP much though which is a shame. |
That's too bad. I hate games that won't run solid on XP. Sloppy programming probably.
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Kong Daddy
Amiga Junkie
Joined: 08 Sep 2008
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| Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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| ricky500 wrote: | | Kong Daddy wrote: |
I've got the remastered edition of the PC game, it doesn't really like Win XP much though which is a shame. |
That's too bad. I hate games that won't run solid on XP. Sloppy programming probably. |
Yes on Microsoft's part 
I've not played about with it too much though as the mouse input stopped working...which is kinda important on that game  I'm sure I could get it to work now after years of XP/Vista configs for work though. |
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Canute
Groupie
Joined: 18 Dec 2004
Posts: 176
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:02 pm Post subject: Re: Defender of the Crown - Patching / improving |
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| ricky500 wrote: | Here's a crazy idea that I want to put out.
As we all know the Amiga version of Defender of the Crown is missing a lot of features / gameplay elements that were added in ports to other machines most notably the Commodore 64. For instance sword fighting on the Amiga version is just mad clicking while other versions have a method to it. Also another example is in the castle siege, in the Amiga version you can only throw rocks while in other versions you can throw Greek fire and Disease.
Anyways, I was thinking, is there enough interest in the Amiga scene for someone or some people to edit / hack the Amiga version of DOTC to add the missing features that are in other versions of the game? I know that this would be a major undertaking. But I was wondering if there is any interest out there in the Amiga scene for such a project? To me, DOTC, is a monumental part of the Amiga's history, and since this is the 25th anniversary of the Amiga, to me it would be fitting for such a project to be done - a Defender of the Crown Re-Loaded as it where.
Of course it might be easier to take all the pictures, music, etc, and start with fresh code, and re-code the whole game maybe adding AGA support and new features as well.
Well, am I just crazy, or is this a possible project that could actually be done? |
ricky500, totally agree with your wishes about what could + should have been done (or should be done) to this important Amiga milestone. Its really unacceptable for example that the C64 and Atari ST ports are better than the Amiga game.
I'm sure you've read and agree with the points about the Amiga game's inadequacies (compared to its ports) on this Lemon64 thread. So, I won't repeat myself too much again here. Anyway, I agree: At least all the C64 (and Atari ST features) should be added to a "pie-in-the-sky" Amiga re-release. Also, the Amiga's sound chip's power should be completely utilised + that buggy staggered music patched!
As you also indicate, Defender of the Crown II on the AmigaCD32 is ok, but really not expanded enough to be really called a sequel. Its 95% the same game as its 7-8 year elder prequel (albeit, with no bug issues). A true Cinemaware sequel surely would have expanded the map (say, Ireland, Scotland, northern France), added a couple of units, thrown in more Lords and castles (different graphics), more random events and subplots/mini-quests.
No, I'm not asking for a Medieval: Total War. The same game engine/aesthetics/flavour of the original Defender of the Crown was an adequate template for a 1990s' sequel.
I agree that the AmigaCD32 DOTC II is too easy. For me, the "C64" prequel is so much better to play long-term. |
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ricky500
Amiga Enthusiast
Joined: 22 May 2005
Age: 27
Posts: 639
Location: Export, PA - USA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 3:15 pm Post subject: Re: Defender of the Crown - Patching / improving |
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| Canute wrote: | | ricky500, totally agree with your wishes about what could + should have been done (or should be done) to this important Amiga milestone. Its really unacceptable for example that the C64 and Atari ST ports are better than the Amiga game. |
So is there people out there in the Amiga scene who can make it happen? Unfortunately, I'm not much of an Amiga programmer myself, but I am still willing to do whatever I can to help with such a project - design, etc.
| Quote: | | I'm sure you've read and agree with the points about the Amiga game's inadequacies (compared to its ports) on this Lemon64 thread. So, I won't repeat myself too much again here. Anyway, I agree: At least all the C64 (and Atari ST features) should be added to a "pie-in-the-sky" Amiga re-release. Also, the Amiga's sound chip's power should be completely utilised + that buggy staggered music patched! |
Yes, I very familiar with the C64 version of DOTC. I played DOTC - both Amiga and C64 versions - tons of time growing up.
| Quote: | As you also indicate, Defender of the Crown II on the AmigaCD32 is ok, but really not expanded enough to be really called a sequel. Its 95% the same game as its 7-8 year elder prequel (albeit, with no bug issues). A true Cinemaware sequel surely would have expanded the map (say, Ireland, Scotland, northern France), added a couple of units, thrown in more Lords and castles (different graphics), more random events and subplots/mini-quests.
No, I'm not asking for a Medieval: Total War. The same game engine/aesthetics/flavour of the original Defender of the Crown was an adequate template for a 1990s' sequel.
I agree that the AmigaCD32 DOTC II is too easy. For me, the "C64" prequel is so much better to play long-term. |
Maybe this new version of DOTC could have two modes - a Classic mode which would be pretty much the original DOTC with the C64 style enhancements, and an Enhanced mode with like you suggested a larger map, more lords, etc - maybe we could have a hot-seat multi-player mode as well.
Talking about this is making me real excited about the prospect of actually doing this project. The Amiga really deserves this, so let's do this! Besides, Cinemaware has released DOTC as freeware, so there wouldn't even be any copy-right issues in doing such a project.
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ElB
Über Groupie
Joined: 26 Oct 2008
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Location: Crewe, UK
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| Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 6:55 pm Post subject: Re: Defender of the Crown - Patching / improving |
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| ricky500 wrote: | | So is there people out there in the Amiga scene who can make it happen? Unfortunately, I'm not much of an Amiga programmer myself, but I am still willing to do whatever I can to help with such a project - design, etc. |
I'll tentatively raise my hand at this point, but don't hold me to it!
| Quote: | | Talking about this is making me real excited about the prospect of actually doing this project. The Amiga really deserves this, so let's do this! Besides, Cinemaware has released DOTC as freeware, so there wouldn't even be any copy-right issues in doing such a project. |
Just because they've released it as Freeware doesn't mean they've relinquished their claim on the copyright -- I can't see them objecting, but it's worth bearing in mind that they can if they so choose especially if any of the original assets (graphics, sound, whatever) are kept rather than being started from scratch...
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ricky500
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Joined: 22 May 2005
Age: 27
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Location: Export, PA - USA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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Should the game be for OCS Amigas or for AGA machines?
If we do it for AGA, someone with artistic skills could take the original 32 color graphics and enhance them to 256 color screens. Or maybe we should start from scratch?
Also on the music side of things - Should we keep the original music or have someone "re-master" it?
What should the project be coded in?
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ElB
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| Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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| ricky500 wrote: | | Should the game be for OCS Amigas or for AGA machines? If we do it for AGA, someone with artistic skills could take the original 32 color graphics and enhance them to 256 color screens. Or maybe we should start from scratch? |
Apart from the amount of effort required to redraw everything there's no reason both chipsets couldn't be supported; it'd take two sets of graphics and whatnot, but the OCS versions could be fairly easily derived from the AGA ones. As it stands new artwork would need to be done anyway for the parts of the game not included in the original, and "reimagining" the original graphics may be safer from a legal standpoint.
| Quote: | | Also on the music side of things - Should we keep the original music or have someone "re-master" it? |
Again there'd be a need for more, but remastering the music is a lot less of a chore and something I'd be happy to do myself...
| Quote: | | What should the project be coded in? |
Given that it's not a game that puts a great demand on the hardware there's probably no need for mad assembler skills, so it doesn't make the slightest bit of difference really...
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Dan Locke
Amiga Enthusiast
Joined: 07 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:23 am Post subject: |
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| ricky500 wrote: | | original 32 color graphics |
Defender of the Crown has only 16 colors. So, even a basic OCS Amiga would benefit from re-drawn graphics.
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ricky500
Amiga Enthusiast
Joined: 22 May 2005
Age: 27
Posts: 639
Location: Export, PA - USA
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| Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| ElB wrote: | | Apart from the amount of effort required to redraw everything there's no reason both chipsets couldn't be supported; it'd take two sets of graphics and whatnot, but the OCS versions could be fairly easily derived from the AGA ones. As it stands new artwork would need to be done anyway for the parts of the game not included in the original, and "reimagining" the original graphics may be safer from a legal standpoint. |
Ok! We'll need a good graphic artist for the project then.
| Quote: | | Again there'd be a need for more, but remastering the music is a lot less of a chore and something I'd be happy to do myself... |
If you would willing do it, that would be great. Here's a custom module of all the music from DOTC that can be played in a player like Eagle Player.
http://www.mediafire.com/?yteh9rbbxxo9as3
| Quote: | | Given that it's not a game that puts a great demand on the hardware there's probably no need for mad assembler skills, so it doesn't make the slightest bit of difference really... |
I agree. I'm not too familiar with Amiga programming, but it does make sense to do it in a high-level language like C or whatever instead of assembly language.
| Quote: | | Defender of the Crown has only 16 colors. So, even a basic OCS Amiga would benefit from re-drawn graphics. |
Actually, DOTC does have 32 color graphics. It is one of the few early Amiga games untouched by the evil scourge of 16 colors for the sake of easy Atari ST conversion purposes.
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Dan Locke
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| Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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| ricky500 wrote: | | Actually, DOTC does have 32 color graphics. It is one of the few early Amiga games untouched by the evil scourge of 16 colors for the sake of easy Atari ST conversion purposes. |
Ah. You're right, but I could have sworn that I'd compared the two and found them to be identical. Looking at them again, the Amiga version does have more colors.
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